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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>roadmap in 2020 · project leads (public) · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/index.html">project leads (public)</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html">roadmap in 2020</a></h3>

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<a name="185601664"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601664" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601664">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I really want to get this roadmap RFC up and done. =)</p>
<p>hey <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120518">@Eric Huss</span>, I saw the <a href="https://blog.rust-lang.org/inside-rust/2020/01/10/cargo-in-2020.html" target="_blank" title="https://blog.rust-lang.org/inside-rust/2020/01/10/cargo-in-2020.html">cargo in 2020 post</a>, and it got me thinking. Well, first, it's a good read, and it got me wondering what the role of the <em>roadmap</em> should be. I think it shouldn't just be each team "stapling together" their plans -- more like identifying themes and goals that the teams should interpret in their own ways.</p>



<a name="185601771"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601771" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601771">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Toying with that I started reworking the draft points I had before</p>



<a name="185601844"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601844" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601844">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>So far I have these, though I think the last few are not right (too narrow)</p>
<ul>
<li>Prepare for a possible Rust 2021 Edition</li>
<li>Follow-up on in-progress designs and efforts</li>
<li>Improve project functioning and structure</li>
<li>Polish and extend support for Async I/O</li>
<li>Strengthen the trait system</li>
<li>Consolidate IDE experimentation into a single approach</li>
</ul>



<a name="185601879"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601879" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601879">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>Notably, "trait system" isn't really right I think -- there's something else I'm looking for -- maybe "fundamentals"?</p>



<a name="185601881"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601881" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601881">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think IDE falls as a subbullet of "Follow-up on in-progress designs and efforts"</p>



<a name="185601892"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601892" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601892">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>A lot of things do,</p>



<a name="185601896"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601896" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601896">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is ok :)</p>



<a name="185601905"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601905" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601905">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I was hoping to add a few more themes, the idea being</p>



<a name="185601921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601921">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>to help in categoring <em>which</em> in-progress efforts...</p>



<a name="185601945"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601945" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601945">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>hm, sure, that makes sense, though perhaps doesn't quite jive well with the main roadmap</p>



<a name="185601961"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601961" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601961">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. it may be worth leaving the which to the individual teams</p>



<a name="185601980"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185601980" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185601980">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>to be clear, I agree that bullet should be removed</p>



<a name="185602050"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602050" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602050">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>probably the last two bullets, <em>maybe</em> even Async I/O</p>



<a name="185602061"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602061" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602061">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I would like to add a few other themes that replace them I guess is what I mean</p>



<a name="185602093"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602093" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602093">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>but maybe we don't need to, I don't know</p>



<a name="185602108"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602108" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602108">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Prepare for a possible Rust 2021 Edition</li>
<li>Follow-up on in-progress designs and efforts</li>
<li>Improve project functioning and structure</li>
</ul>



<a name="185602114"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602114" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602114">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>that feels pretty vague</p>



<a name="185602137"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602137" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602137">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>still, I think the 2nd bullet is very on point</p>



<a name="185602143"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602143" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602143">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that may not be a bad thing</p>



<a name="185602158"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602158" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602158">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>but also -- it feels pretty concrete</p>



<a name="185602162"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602162" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602162">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's kind of like "ok, we put up with various problems because we wanted to focus on fundamentals, but we need to come back to those 'intermediate' problems"</p>



<a name="185602165"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602165" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602165">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>things that develop at scale</p>



<a name="185602170"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602170" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602170">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>not in <em>what</em> we do, but <em>why</em> we want them</p>



<a name="185602180"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602180" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602180">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this fits a lot of my intuitions right now</p>



<a name="185602252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602252">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>and notably I think one of the challenges about those 'intermediate' problems is that sometimes they don't impact a <em>lot</em> of people, but those people who they impact, they impact a <em>lot</em></p>



<a name="185602270"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602270" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602270">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe there's a bullet to be crafted around <em>that</em>?</p>



<a name="185602298"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602298" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602298">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>hm, maybe</p>



<a name="185602303"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602303" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602303">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>cargo features kind of feel like this --</p>



<a name="185602327"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602327" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602327">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>we've got the basic feature, we've gained experience, but we know that there are various problems that arise in practice</p>



<a name="185602331"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602331" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602331">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>refocusing on the "5%" so to speak?</p>



<a name="185602339"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602339" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602339">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess that's a form of "polish"</p>



<a name="185602345"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602345" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602345">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., instead of expanding the 95%</p>



<a name="185602375"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602375" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602375">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>refocusing on the "5%" so to speak?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>to a certain extent :) I'm not sure I'd phrase it quite like that</p>



<a name="185602394"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602394" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602394">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sure, yeah</p>



<a name="185602406"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602406" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602406">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess that what "polish" and this "fix smaller problems" have in common is</p>



<a name="185602413"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602413" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602413">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>sometimes it's a laundry list of things</p>



<a name="185602435"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602435" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602435">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>no one of which is the "key" thing</p>



<a name="185602500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602500">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess two concrete examples are <a class="stream" data-stream-id="216763" href="/#narrow/stream/216763-project-inline-asm">#project-inline-asm</a> and <a class="stream" data-stream-id="216762" href="/#narrow/stream/216762-project-safe-transmute">#project-safe-transmute</a></p>



<a name="185602514"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602514" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602514">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>that sort of fit this to my mind</p>



<a name="185602537"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602537" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602537">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>both I think also fit the "in progress" design bullet</p>



<a name="185602561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602561">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>but they also fix real problems, esp. problems that production users hit, and/or "systems problems"</p>



<a name="185602576"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602576" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602576">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>(sorry, thinking out loud a bit)</p>



<a name="185602604"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602604" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602604">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway maybe I should just run with those 3 bullets to start, I agree they're sort of easy to defend</p>



<a name="185602637"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602637" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602637">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had this text:</p>



<a name="185602668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602668">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<h2>Structure of the roadmap</h2>
<p>The roadmap this year is based around a few central goals. These goals<br>
are intentionally rather broad -- they are meant to be interpreted<br>
throughout the year by the various teams, as they make decisions about<br>
what to pursue. In some cases, we have identified and called out<br>
particular areas of focus, such as the 2021 Roadmap and Async I/O, but<br>
in others we have left the choice rather broad.</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="185602760"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602760" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602760">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think running with the first three bullets is the right move</p>



<a name="185602780"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602780" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602780">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am increasingly of this mind</p>



<a name="185602795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602795">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe I just needed someone to push me over the edge :)</p>



<a name="185602799"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602799" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602799">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>"less is more"..</p>



<a name="185602813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602813">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>plus I dont' want to stall on this forever</p>



<a name="185602837"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602837" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602837">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I think we need to get something out in the next two weeks</p>



<a name="185602852"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602852" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602852">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have a 'self goal' to have something open by end of week</p>



<a name="185602887"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602887" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602887">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I can focus on the things I really want to be doing :P</p>



<a name="185602899"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602899" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602899">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>side note that I want to revisit the roadmap procss</p>



<a name="185602904"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602904" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602904">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>this year doesn't feel very good at all</p>



<a name="185602943"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602943" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602943">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I think might be useful</p>



<a name="185602946"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602946" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602946">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>that I saw in prior roadmaps</p>



<a name="185602950"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602950" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602950">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe I'll try to emulate it</p>



<a name="185602956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602956">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>is to lay out the course of the year</p>



<a name="185602965"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602965" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602965">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>and in particular I'd like us to start thinking about when we will be making <em>rust 2021</em> decisions</p>



<a name="185602976"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602976" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602976">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>and things like "start survey"</p>



<a name="185602991"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185602991" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185602991">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this year we were all kind of adapting and it was hard, but we can do better</p>



<a name="185603006"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603006" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603006">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah -- I think for a lot of those decisions it would be great to put them on the calendar</p>



<a name="185603024"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603024" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603024">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>especially because we need to line up resources</p>



<a name="185603035"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603035" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603035">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, thanks, that was helpful</p>



<a name="185603102"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603102" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603102">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would be happy to help with the draft, too, fwiw</p>



<a name="185603114"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603114" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603114">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I probably don't have the energy to <em>create</em> it</p>



<a name="185603124"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603124">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>but fleshing things out, yes :)</p>



<a name="185603129"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603129" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603129">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, I'm going to push it to my repo, I'll add you as a collab perhaps?</p>



<a name="185603132"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603132" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603132">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>or could use hackmd</p>



<a name="185603135"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603135" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603135">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can't decide :)</p>



<a name="185603139"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603139" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603139">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I like being able to edit in emacs</p>



<a name="185603146"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603146" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603146">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>and/or go offline</p>



<a name="185603150"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603150" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603150">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I guess I'll go w/ repo :)</p>



<a name="185603157"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603157" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603157">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>repo is fine by me :)</p>



<a name="185603655"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603655" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603655">(Jan 14 2020 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Reading back over the text, one thing I think is "missing" here a bit (and maybe that's fine, it can come up in follow-up blog posts or other things) are any hint of specific areas, such as error handling, Async I/O, traits, where we expect to focus. That might also make some of the text harder to write. Well, I guess we'll see.</p>



<a name="185603772"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185603772" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185603772">(Jan 14 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway I threw up a <em>super</em> rough draft in the <a href="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/rfcs/tree/roadmap-2020" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/rfcs/tree/roadmap-2020">roadmap-2020 branch</a> on my repository</p>



<a name="185634140"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185634140" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185634140">(Jan 14 2020 at 20:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am going to try to spend at least an hour in a bit hacking on that</p>



<a name="185636453"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185636453" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185636453">(Jan 14 2020 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it would be reasonable to list the specific technical areas of focus in the "in-progress efforts" section.</p>



<a name="185636608"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185636608" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185636608">(Jan 14 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>One oddity is that the three items seem to be in entirely different categories. I almost wonder if "governance" and "technical" are more like two separate dimensions/domains of focus that the project must have every year, and the road map should just acknowledge that before specifying the specific concerns _within_ each domain to highlight in the road map.</p>



<a name="185637074"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185637074" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185637074">(Jan 14 2020 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or, perhaps, the three dimensions, listed in the same order as your bullet points above, would be:</p>
<ul>
<li>future-looking ("new") language &amp; compiler features &amp; changes (2020 focus: 2021 edition prep, maybe Error handling)</li>
<li>continuation of existing language &amp; compiler efforts (2020 focus: transmute &amp; asm WGs; async; traits)</li>
<li>social/community (2020 focus: governance, structure, funding)</li>
</ul>



<a name="185638944"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185638944" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185638944">(Jan 14 2020 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I explicitly don't want to talk about the specific things we aim to focus on</p>



<a name="185639446"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185639446" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185639446">(Jan 14 2020 at 20:58)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I pushed up a few paragraphs on the 2 bullet points you didn't have anything for yet -- I feel like I want to add something about the themes but am not feeling particularly in the flow so might come back to it</p>



<a name="185651508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185651508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185651508">(Jan 14 2020 at 23:09)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> thanks, I made a few more edits, but I have to run now; I too am 'not feeling it' right now. I'd like to start weaving in quotes and things from people's posts, for example, but .. yeah.</p>



<a name="185651529"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185651529" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185651529">(Jan 14 2020 at 23:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>mhm</p>



<a name="185705606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705606">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> I've been doing some edits this morning. I pushed some text around the organization section, take a look. I'm having "mixed feels" about the structure -- it feels like a bit of an abdication, I guess, of an "opportunity" to narrow our focus a bit more, perhaps? </p>
<p>That said, one of the things I want to do also is to start looking at the survey a bit more (have to figure out the best way to be publishing that "in-progress stuff"), because I'm wondering if looking through it there might be some hints at what else we can say.</p>
<p>I guess it feels like we should be able to give some guidance to help people select <em>which</em> in-progress efforts to prioritize =)</p>



<a name="185705674"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705674" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705674">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hm yeah</p>



<a name="185705682"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705682" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705682">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let me take a look</p>



<a name="185705699"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705699" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705699">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also included a yearly calendar</p>



<a name="185705705"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705705" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705705">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree that it seems good to be more specific</p>



<a name="185705772"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705772" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705772">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>But I'm not sure how to do that without getting too fine grained</p>



<a name="185705879"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705879" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705879">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I know.</p>



<a name="185705889"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705889" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705889">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>well one thing I was thinking</p>



<a name="185705914"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705914" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705914">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>first off, I was re-reading <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="256759">@boats</span> gem of a post on <a href="https://boats.gitlab.io/blog/post/rust-2019/" target="_blank" title="https://boats.gitlab.io/blog/post/rust-2019/">"Organizational Debt"</a></p>



<a name="185705972"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705972" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705972">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>in any case I was thinking that the "improve organization" section might be easily expanded to some separate bullets</p>



<a name="185705984"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185705984" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185705984">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I really like the idea of trying to keep these goals general and more of "problem statements"</p>



<a name="185706001"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706001" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706001">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>regarding the more <em>technical</em> things, this partly why I wanted to look into survey</p>



<a name="185706053"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706053" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706053">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Some initial notes from skimming what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="250246">@Jasun Carr</span> has done so far:</p>



<a name="185706071"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706071" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706071">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>there is a strong need for rust docs in native languages, particularly in chinese population</li>
</ul>



<a name="185706152"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706152" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706152">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>biggest reason not to use rust is company doesn't use rust, following by "rust is intimidating/hard" (I don't have %ages)</li>
</ul>



<a name="185706202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706202">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>last yaer's edition was a big success in terms of adoption, with virtualy everyone using Rust 2018 at leaast some of the time, and 85% saying it was very little work</li>
</ul>



<a name="185706215"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706215" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706215">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>"Outside of quantitative data, none of the qualitative responses indicate concern/complaints related specifically to 2018."</li>
</ul>



<a name="185706248"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706248" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706248">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:09)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>I know I saw a mention that const generics + GATs were very high on people's "things they are most excited about", but that was preliminary data</li>
</ul>



<a name="185706427"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706427" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706427">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the first bullet is a problem we're working towards. I see the website internationalization as a stepping stone towards it, and more broadly as we work to make the teams better suited to distributed work and so forth</p>



<a name="185706450"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706450" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706450">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>( Personally, I feel like compilation times / IDEs / error-handling / async remain super important themes, with another being kind of long tail of "systems features". The last one I am having a bit of trouble quantifying, except that I think it has come up repeatedly in terms of things like adoption from companies. )</p>



<a name="185706473"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706473" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706473">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I think the first bullet is a problem we're working towards. I see the website internationalization as a stepping stone towards it, and more broadly as we work to make the teams better suited to distributed work and so forth</p>
</blockquote>
<p>right, well, it might be worth highlighting "outreach and integratation of global community" or something</p>



<a name="185706483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706483">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's kind of just a separate bullet I guess</p>



<a name="185706501"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706501" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706501">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hm so I would actually say that we should not focus on it as a top-level itrm</p>



<a name="185706584"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706584" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706584">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess that one other fact is I <em>do</em> want to be somewhat "unambitious"</p>



<a name="185706606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706606">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>But rather try and make sure that the organizational work allows for that to happen</p>



<a name="185706607"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706607" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706607">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't want to bite off more than we can handle</p>



<a name="185706611"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706611" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706611">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I do think that the "fairly high level" structure is a good way to sidestep the challenge of not knowing quite how many resources we have to provision</p>



<a name="185706621"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706621" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706621">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I feel like there should be some middle ground somehow</p>



<a name="185706642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706642">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe it's worth going back a step</p>



<a name="185706649"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706649" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706649">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>why did I list, e.g., error handling and async ?</p>



<a name="185706659"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706659" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706659">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Error handling is interesting because I see it as "followthrough" but of a differnet kind</p>



<a name="185706665"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706665" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706665">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I see the potential team structure changes as a good way to prepare for inclusion of more countries and so forth</p>



<a name="185706670"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706670" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706670">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>in short, I think there are a number of problems we've known about for some time but put off trying to solve</p>



<a name="185706672"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706672" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706672">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>cargo's features are another example</p>



<a name="185706732"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706732" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706732">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there is some value in circling back to some of those long-standing problems and trying to take a fresh ook</p>



<a name="185706742"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706742" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706742">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>specialization probably fits in this bucket</p>



<a name="185706756"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706756" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706756">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes. I agree. I am not myself 100% sure that we should do so this year</p>



<a name="185706763"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706763" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706763">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Like - I want to</p>



<a name="185706768"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706768" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706768">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, I think it really depends on what we've got</p>



<a name="185706814"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706814" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706814">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe we can identify these as long standing issues that are good test cases for RFC redesign</p>



<a name="185706816"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706816" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706816">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>async is a bit different, in any case</p>



<a name="185706819"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706819">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's more like "don't let this stall out"</p>



<a name="185706860"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706860" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706860">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sure</p>



<a name="185706945"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706945" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706945">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Yes. I agree. I am not myself 100% sure that we should do so this year</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I mean, we sort of are, right? at least the cargo roadmap that <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120518">@Eric Huss</span> laid out included attack on some long-standing problems</p>



<a name="185706970"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706970" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706970">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's a bit weird though to say "one of our problems is long-standing problems"</p>



<a name="185706974"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706974" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706974">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, yes. I'm not saying that things aren't shaping that way</p>



<a name="185706977"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706977" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706977">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>without trying to name them :)</p>



<a name="185706995"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185706995" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185706995">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but when phrased as <em>goals</em> it makes sense)</p>



<a name="185707002"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707002" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707002">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm saying that if we go for those problems I don't think we'll have much time left</p>



<a name="185707083"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707083" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707083">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which is fine! But we should be cautious about expecting to work on organizational challenges at the same time</p>



<a name="185707154"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707154" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707154">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm pondering :)</p>



<a name="185707172"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707172" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707172">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I definitely agree about trying to avoid being too ambitious</p>



<a name="185707221"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707221" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707221">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>let's put this question a bit on hold for a second and look at 'improve projection functioning, governance, and visibility". I tried to make that a bit more specific by adding this text:</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>**It can be quite difficult to get visibility into "what is going<br>
  on".** It should be easier to answer questions like "what are the<br>
  active efforts and how can I help" to "what is the status of feature<br>
  X".</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>**It is often difficult to find enough people to do the work that<br>
  seems to be needed.** Perhaps the most obvious solution to this is<br>
  to try and get more people paid for their work on Rust, but we also<br>
  wish to encourage and better facilitate volunteer contribution.</p>
<ul>
<li>Further, our system is particularly susceptible to work "falling<br>
  off" in the middle, as discussed in the previous section. It is<br>
  difficult to sustain focus and get complete follow-through.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>
<p>**Design discussions, particularly controversial ones, can be<br>
  exhausting and impossible to keep up with.** Further, cross-cutting<br>
  projects that cut across multiple teams can be particularly<br>
  difficult to manage.</p>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="185707241"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707241" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707241">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>(curse Zulip's markdown for not handling that correctly, grr)</p>



<a name="185707254"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707254" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707254">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm wondering if those bullets themselves are kind of "goals" to highlight</p>



<a name="185707281"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707281" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707281">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., replace the single bullet with those bullets</p>



<a name="185707284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707284">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think they are</p>



<a name="185707343"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707343" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707343">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>But I like our 3 bullets :)</p>



<a name="185707344"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707344" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707344">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>(or perhaps create sub-bullets)</p>



<a name="185707352"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707352" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707352">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sub bullets seems good</p>



<a name="185707367"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707367" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707367">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think these are the major prongs/problem statements</p>



<a name="185707390"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707390" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707390">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>(in this area)</p>



<a name="185707416"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707416" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707416">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Side note, I've been reading this book <a href="http://timharford.com/books/messy/" target="_blank" title="http://timharford.com/books/messy/">Messy</a> and it seems pretty relevant to all this</p>



<a name="185707426"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707426" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707426">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>recommended :)</p>



<a name="185707584"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707584" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707584">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm finding the middle bullet hard to convert into "goal form"</p>



<a name="185707588"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707588" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707588">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>the problem statement is "too few people"</p>



<a name="185707618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707618">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>although I suspect it is "trying to do too much"</p>



<a name="185707666"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707666" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707666">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems like the real problem is that we have trouble scaling our initiatives to what is available and planning around that?</p>



<a name="185707668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707668">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think also root cause of first bullet</p>



<a name="185707730"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707730" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707730">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., trying to do too much is a root cause of first bullet?</p>



<a name="185707735"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707735" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707735">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>if so, I agree</p>



<a name="185707742"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707742" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707742">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e. we don't have people because people don't know what to do</p>



<a name="185707765"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707765" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707765">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah</p>



<a name="185707767"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707767" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707767">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also agree</p>



<a name="185707777"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707777" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707777">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think part of that is that coordinating people is hard</p>



<a name="185707795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707795">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's kind of a "mentoring" / "path to membership" problem</p>



<a name="185707800"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707800" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707800">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's complex :)</p>



<a name="185707813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707813">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>and project groups will solve ALL OF IT :P</p>



<a name="185707832"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707832" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707832">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:25)</a>:</h4>
<div class="message_inline_image"><a href="https://media.giphy.com/media/pvO8ugi72HKww/giphy.gif" target="_blank" title="https://media.giphy.com/media/pvO8ugi72HKww/giphy.gif"><img src="https://media.giphy.com/media/pvO8ugi72HKww/giphy.gif"></a></div>



<a name="185707977"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185707977" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185707977">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Heh, I hope so :)</p>



<a name="185708058"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708058" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708058">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do think doing too much exacerbates the problem</p>



<a name="185708114"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708114" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708114">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., hard to put it all on one page or so</p>



<a name="185708124"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708124">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I also think that our high parallelism has advantages</p>



<a name="185708149"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708149">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>(OTOH, even <em>I</em> don't usually know where I can help out, if I wanted to -- and that means that probably no one knows :)</p>



<a name="185708227"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708227" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708227">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes to all the above :)</p>



<a name="185708422"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708422" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708422">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can't quite tell if a goal of "get more people paid to work on rust"...</p>



<a name="185708432"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708432" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708432">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's definitely out of our control :) but it's relevant</p>



<a name="185708442"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708442" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708442">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, not fully</p>



<a name="185708483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708483">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it should not be</p>



<a name="185708488"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708488" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708488">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Improve project functioning and governance:<ul>
<li>Improve visibility into the state of initiatives and design efforts</li>
<li>XXX</li>
<li>Make design discussions more productive and less exhausting</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="185708495"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708495" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708495">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>woah, sub-bullets worked</p>



<a name="185708511"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708511" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708511">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>in any case, I can't tell what XXX should be</p>



<a name="185708523"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708523" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708523">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>because in some sense right now I don't think if people were paid, it is clear that they would be able to "find work"</p>



<a name="185708642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708642">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, I'm thinking a bit about what e.g. the Parity post said</p>



<a name="185708645"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708645" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708645">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe "ensure follow-through on design work"</p>



<a name="185708680"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708680" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708680">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>which I still feel captures a problem (and one more general than companies)</p>



<a name="185708723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708723">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>“We, too, have team members who are interested in helping on specialization or fixing the aforementioned bugs. However, it’s often unclear whether the work is worthwhile. To a business, it is hard to argue that one might spend a month or two working on a new feature without any assurance that the approach taken would be accepted.”</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="185708765"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708765" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708765">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I think that fits into the "find work" problem, in some sense</p>



<a name="185708793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708793">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think people misread this as "we want guarantees", but I see it more like "we want agreement that we'll follow through and solve the problem, but we're willing to do the work"</p>



<a name="185708795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708795">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree that there's two sides to it -- identifying problems and matching those to 'plausible acceptance'</p>



<a name="185708849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708849">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and I think the same dynamic definitely arises with volunteers)</p>



<a name="185708854"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708854" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708854">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I think I agree on the latter</p>



<a name="185708861"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708861" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708861">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., that it is not guarantees</p>



<a name="185708868"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708868" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708868">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the same happens with volunteers</p>



<a name="185708992"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708992" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708992">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Prepare for a possible Rust 2021 Edition</li>
<li>Followthrough on in-progress designs and efforts</li>
<li>Improve project functioning and governance:<ul>
<li>Improve visibility into the state of initiatives and design efforts</li>
<li>Scale the work we're doing with the resources available</li>
<li>Make design discussions more productive and less exhausting</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="185708996"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185708996" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185708996">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe that?</p>



<a name="185709076"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709076" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709076">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>hm -- I think "scale" is not quite the right verb :)</p>



<a name="185709102"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709102" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709102">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it kind of matches, hm</p>



<a name="185709126"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709126" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709126">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe just no second bullelt :)</p>



<a name="185709148"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709148" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709148">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it is important to call this out</p>



<a name="185709159"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709159" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709159">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>so the <em>problem</em> is a "too few hands"</p>



<a name="185709168"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709168" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709168">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>the solutions really are two fold, I guess</p>



<a name="185709169"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709169" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709169">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., it is a key problem</p>



<a name="185709173"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709173" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709173">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>or three</p>



<a name="185709179"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709179" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709179">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>do less</li>
</ul>



<a name="185709185"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709185" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709185">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>improve our "path to membership" and onboarding</li>
</ul>



<a name="185709201"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709201" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709201">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>help to get people paid for their work on rust</li>
</ul>



<a name="185709210"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709210" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709210">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe just call out those second two as things we should try to do</p>



<a name="185709223"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709223" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709223">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure that "too few hands" -- maybe "too few matched hands, many unmatched hands"</p>



<a name="185709276"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709276" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709276">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>well</p>



<a name="185709278"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709278" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709278">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't thikn it's that simple</p>



<a name="185709292"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709292" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709292">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think a lot of times the problem is "reviewing and mentoring" bandwidth more than anything</p>



<a name="185709297"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709297" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709297">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's not so much that there's a lack of volunteers <em>around</em></p>



<a name="185709327"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709327" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709327">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's that trying to help structure efforts is exhausting, and there are relatively few people with the time to do it</p>



<a name="185709331"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709331" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709331">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>hm, so maybe you misunderstood :)</p>
<p>By matched I mean to -- language team time, review/mentoring bandwidth, etc</p>



<a name="185709356"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709356" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709356">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>so maybne <em>that's</em> actually what we should say</p>



<a name="185709368"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709368" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709368">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>increase the mentoring and leadership bandwidth</li>
</ul>



<a name="185709382"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709382" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709382">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I think that's good</p>



<a name="185709411"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709411" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709411">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Improve project functioning and governance:<ul>
<li>Improve visibility into the state of initiatives and design efforts</li>
<li>Increase mentoring and leadership bandwidth</li>
<li>Make design discussions more productive and less exhausting</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="185709413"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709413" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709413">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, feeling good about that</p>



<a name="185709417"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709417" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709417">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and we can expand on <em>why</em>)</p>



<a name="185709463"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709463" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709463">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>that clearly also covers "help people get paid"</p>



<a name="185709468"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709468" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709468">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>right</p>



<a name="185709749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709749">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe we should try to circle back to why we want to tackle error handling etc</p>
<p>i.e., it's still not completely clear to me other than just "long standing problem"</p>



<a name="185709782"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709782" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709782">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Prepare for a Rust 2021 Edition</li>
<li>Followthrough with in-progress designs and efforts</li>
<li>Improve project functioning, governance, and visibility<ul>
<li>Improve visibility into the state of initiatives and design efforts</li>
<li>Increase mentoring and leadership bandwidth</li>
<li>Make design discussions more productive and less exhausting</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="185709791"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709791" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709791">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess it fits under the 2nd bullet</p>



<a name="185709874"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709874" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709874">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>to be honest these three bullets are looking <em>very</em> ambitious</p>



<a name="185709958"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709958" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709958">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>well it all depends</p>



<a name="185709969"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709969" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709969">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think we'll "vanquish" these problems</p>



<a name="185709976"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185709976" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185709976">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think we can make strides towards them</p>



<a name="185710023"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710023" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710023">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sure, yes -- I guess -- it feels like we're tackling three huge bears</p>



<a name="185710081"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710081" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710081">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>they're sort of "evergreen" :)</p>



<a name="185710093"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710093" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710093">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>we could be more narrow, e.g., "form a foundation" or whatever</p>



<a name="185710108"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710108" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710108">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>"introduce a staged rfc process"</p>



<a name="185710110"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710110" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710110">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this is good for the high level goals</p>



<a name="185710119"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710119" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710119">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>but maybe it's better to just say</p>



<a name="185710122"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710122" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710122">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>" we know that we can't 'solve' these problems "</p>



<a name="185710139"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710139" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710139">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>"but we should be trying to take steps in each of these areas and make improvements"</p>



<a name="185710152"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710152" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710152">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>But we should clarify that we intend to make <em>progress</em> -- i.e., it is not our intent to finish/solve/declare done</p>



<a name="185710157"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710157" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710157">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, that language sounds good</p>



<a name="185710311"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710311" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710311">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>another thing</p>



<a name="185710321"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710321" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710321">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>something we haven't really done much of</p>



<a name="185710330"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710330" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710330">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>is interim reports that talk about</p>



<a name="185710335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710335">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>what we are doing towards the goals</li>
</ul>



<a name="185710346"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710346" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710346">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>and retrospectives after the fact</li>
</ul>



<a name="185710354"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710354" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710354">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that we should be doing more of this</p>



<a name="185710383"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710383" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710383">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., I sort of think it would be the norm that the "goals" are the sorts of things that are rarely if ever "done"</p>



<a name="185710403"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710403" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710403">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it's more towards the <em>end</em> of the year that we talk about what we have done</p>



<a name="185710443"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710443" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710443">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe that belongs in the calendar</p>



<a name="185710465"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710465" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710465">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>the original north star RFC included plans for this</p>



<a name="185710479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710479">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>just hard to find the bandwidth sometimes :)</p>



<a name="185710489"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710489" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710489">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I feel it's sort of imporant for the Rust organization</p>



<a name="185710580"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710580" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710580">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>We should make it part of the calendar</p>



<a name="185710586"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710586" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710586">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe November?</p>



<a name="185710596"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710596" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710596">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., we decide on edition in October</p>



<a name="185710603"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710603" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710603">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>and close out the year in Novemeber</p>



<a name="185710612"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710612" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710612">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>also a good fit for survey planning perhaps</p>



<a name="185710643"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710643" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710643">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>no later than that for sure</p>



<a name="185710661"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710661" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710661">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>January<ul>
<li>Rust 2020 survey results published</li>
<li>Roadmap RFC opened</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>February</li>
<li>March<ul>
<li>Rust All Hands will take place March 16-20</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>April</li>
<li>May</li>
<li>June</li>
<li>July</li>
<li>August</li>
<li>September<ul>
<li>Start the Rust survey</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>October:<ul>
<li>Publish survey results</li>
<li>All 2021 edition work must be landed</li>
<li>Call for Rust 2022 blog posts begins here</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>November --</li>
<li>December -- holiday month, things traditionally run slowly here</li>
</ul>



<a name="185710666"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710666" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710666">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is what I wrote so far</p>



<a name="185710668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710668">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think putting it earlier is hard</p>



<a name="185710675"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710675" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710675">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think November is probably good</p>



<a name="185710694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710694">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>hm so September is not "Start" for the survey then</p>



<a name="185710705"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710705" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710705">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>Why not?</p>



<a name="185710710"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710710" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710710">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>we need to start in august I think if we want results by october</p>



<a name="185710716"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710716" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710716">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>it'll go live september</p>



<a name="185710726"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710726" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710726">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>sorry, that's what I meant</p>



<a name="185710736"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710736" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710736">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>good to call that out</p>



<a name="185710775"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710775" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710775">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>January<ul>
<li>Rust 2020 survey results published</li>
<li>Roadmap RFC opened</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>February</li>
<li>March<ul>
<li>Rust All Hands will take place March 16-20</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>April</li>
<li>May</li>
<li>June</li>
<li>July</li>
<li>August<ul>
<li>Start organizing Rust survey</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>September<ul>
<li>Rust survey goes live and runs for two weeks</li>
<li>Analysis of survey data begins</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>October:<ul>
<li>Publish survey results</li>
<li>All 2021 edition work must be landed</li>
<li>Call for Rust 2022 blog posts begins here</li>
<li>Begin work on retrospective</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>November<ul>
<li>Publish retrospective on what has happened over 2021</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>December -- holiday month, things traditionally run slowly here</li>
</ul>



<a name="185710787"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710787" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710787">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>this btw is super helpful</p>



<a name="185710836"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710836" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710836">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>we should be doing more of this ;)</p>



<a name="185710859"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710859" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710859">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe we should, e.g. on core-team repo or something, keep a "planning calendar" that project leads and teams can add to...)</p>



<a name="185710877"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710877" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710877">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we should also publish intermediate retrospectives April and August</p>



<a name="185710882"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710882" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710882">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>(at least)</p>



<a name="185710921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185710921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185710921">(Jan 15 2020 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>or push for teams to produce documents of that kind</p>



<a name="185711721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185711721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185711721">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="185711729"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185711729" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185711729">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think most realistically</p>



<a name="185711752"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185711752" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185711752">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>we will need someone to go do "interviews" with the teams to get this info</p>



<a name="185711755"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185711755" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185711755">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that's ok</p>



<a name="185711763"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185711763" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185711763">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>actually the "async interviews" model is maybe a good one</p>



<a name="185711773"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185711773" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185711773">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've found it pretty scalable and enjoyable</p>



<a name="185711807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185711807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185711807">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes -- I think incorporating ecosystem/community is a good fit for the checkins</p>



<a name="185711822"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185711822" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185711822">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>(ultimately, that's somewhat who the roadmap is for)</p>



<a name="185712235"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712235" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712235">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>two intermediate retrospectives feels like maybe too much</p>



<a name="185712256"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712256" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712256">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess it depends how much work it is</p>



<a name="185712269"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712269" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712269">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm just worried about overcomitting :)</p>



<a name="185712279"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712279" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712279">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ps, i'm working on the text still</p>



<a name="185712281"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712281" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712281">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>coming along nicely I thnk</p>



<a name="185712468"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712468" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712468">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>hm, maybe</p>



<a name="185712473"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712473" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712473">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>are there any posts from this year that talked about design process.... I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="211722">@Yoshua Wuyts</span> probably, but I already quoted them...</p>



<a name="185712485"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712485" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712485">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:08)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>two intermediate retrospectives feels like maybe too much</p>
</blockquote>
<p>maybe one in the summer?</p>



<a name="185712523"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712523" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712523">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>well -- so I was thinking that the first is basically the all hands retro</p>



<a name="185712528"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712528" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712528">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>and the second is "the summer" :)</p>



<a name="185712563"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712563" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712563">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok</p>



<a name="185712581"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712581" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712581">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was debating about exactly that, an "all hands retro"</p>



<a name="185712631"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712631" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712631">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure if we should talk much about it, but I think putting it on a calendar is the right thing</p>



<a name="185712658"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712658" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712658">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>now, mind you, this might just be a post that basically says "here's a bunch of links to paper docs"</p>



<a name="185712740"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712740" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712740">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>we should definitely be doing that</p>



<a name="185712757"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712757" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712757">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I thnk we didn't last year because it..was particularly draining</p>



<a name="185712799"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712799" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712799">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>some about design: <a href="https://spacekookie.de/blog/rust-2020-the-rfc-process-and-distributions/" target="_blank" title="https://spacekookie.de/blog/rust-2020-the-rfc-process-and-distributions/">https://spacekookie.de/blog/rust-2020-the-rfc-process-and-distributions/</a></p>



<a name="185712832"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712832" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712832">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah last year was pretty draining</p>



<a name="185712948"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712948" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712948">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is actually good :)</p>



<a name="185712984"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185712984" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185712984">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I like <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="131358">spacekookie</span>'s rather flippant first paragraph :)</p>



<a name="185713010"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185713010" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185713010">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>PS <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="117568">@Aidan Hobson Sayers</span> just opened a <a href="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/rfcs/pull/6" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/rfcs/pull/6">PR</a>, so I'm pinging them to mention we've been chatting a lot here :)</p>



<a name="185713126"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185713126" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185713126">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah but looks mostly easy to integrate</p>



<a name="185713246"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185713246" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> spacekookie <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185713246">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>:D</p>



<a name="185713756"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185713756" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185713756">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, I pushed the changes we've been discussing <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span></p>



<a name="185713769"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185713769" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185713769">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm going to go merge <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="117568">@Aidan Hobson Sayers</span>'s PR</p>



<a name="185714277"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185714277" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185714277">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this is looking really good</p>



<a name="185714668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185714668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185714668">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I need to run, but other than some typos and so forth -- I feel like I would personally be ready to signoff on this</p>



<a name="185714704"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185714704" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185714704">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can try and polish it up a bit and we should try to bring it to core team at meeting today, as well as circle it around among project leads</p>



<a name="185715021"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185715021" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185715021">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree it's starting to feel like something that could be published</p>



<a name="185715044"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185715044" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185715044">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>at minimum it's not embarassing</p>



<a name="185715047"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/185715047" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#185715047">(Jan 15 2020 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>good, this has been weighing on me</p>



<a name="186225322"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/186225322" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#186225322">(Jan 21 2020 at 20:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've made a number of edits to <a href="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/rfcs/blob/roadmap-2020/text/0000-roadmap-2020.md" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/rfcs/blob/roadmap-2020/text/0000-roadmap-2020.md">the draft</a> and hope to open it soon, though the major sections remain unchanged</p>



<a name="186227005"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/217588-project%20leads%20%28public%29/topic/roadmap%20in%202020/near/186227005" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/217588-project-leads-(public)/topic/roadmap.20in.202020.html#186227005">(Jan 21 2020 at 21:03)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> <span aria-label="thumbs up" class="emoji emoji-1f44d" role="img" title="thumbs up">:thumbs_up:</span> from me on shipping</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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